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View Full Version : Option to remove "The" from the title sort


TheWzrdOz
May 20th, 2010, 11:51 AM
I would like to put forth a feature request that I didn't see/find mentioned elsewhere. I would like to have the option of removing the word "the" from title sorting. There are so many titles that start with that word:

The Day the Earth Stood Still
The Dark Knight
The Godfather
The Shawshank Redemption
The Usual Suspects

When I want to find a movie (or TV show or Music) I must first scroll down to the T's before I can begin my search.

This should be a no brainer to implement and should be a standard, but I can understand that not everyone would want it, so make it optional.

Please?

unisonband
May 20th, 2010, 03:17 PM
I second this request :)

illegalop
May 22nd, 2010, 10:08 PM
Thirded...

dermotos
May 25th, 2010, 09:04 PM
Forthed!





(this text in brackets is for the silly 10 char min limit)

judgeschambers
May 26th, 2010, 06:17 AM
Already been discussed at length in earlier posts (December 2009):cool:

I seem to remember it's being considered in a future release sometime...:cool:

Pants McCracky
June 10th, 2010, 09:12 AM
This is something I'd love to see as well. :)

TheWzrdOz
June 10th, 2010, 01:53 PM
I have put it up for voting on GetSatisfaction.com

Option to remove "the" from the title sort (http://getsatisfaction.com/boxee/topics/option_to_remove_the_from_the_title_sort)

At least I think I did! LOL

StevenR
June 10th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Already been discussed at length in earlier posts (December 2009):cool:

I seem to remember it's being considered in a future release sometime...:cool:

The only mention I've found suggesting that this would be implemented is over at getsatisfaction (here (http://getsatisfaction.com/boxee/topics/ignore_the_at_the_beginning_of_movie_titles)) but that dates back to the Alpha. It was eventually implemented in the Alpha, but removed in the Beta. When I reported this on the Jira site back in December (BOXEE-3526 (http://jira.boxee.tv/browse/BOXEE-3526)) it was closed as "Won't Fix", so I'm not hopeful that this will be implemented any time soon.

darcilicious
June 10th, 2010, 03:27 PM
I have put it up for voting on GetSatisfaction.com

Option to remove "the" from the title sort (http://getsatisfaction.com/boxee/topics/option_to_remove_the_from_the_title_sort)

At least I think I did! LOL

GetSatisfaction is no longer the place to posts feature requests, this forum is :)

honestbleeps
June 24th, 2010, 09:36 AM
Well, consider this post my vote then.

japius
June 27th, 2010, 10:57 PM
I too would like this feature added (again)

stergil
June 28th, 2010, 02:20 AM
I am in the same boat, this is a necessary function.

Another thread that has some folks discussing whether this is a "bug fix" or a "feature request".
http://forums.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=18365

hoyer801
June 28th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Consider this my request to have "The" and "A" ignored in sorting.

vbmike73
July 9th, 2010, 10:27 AM
While I also agree that A and The should be ignored, let's discuss the work-around for a second.

If I move The to the end of the title preceeded by a comma, will Boxee still be able to get the movie information ok (coverart, year, director), or does it have to be at the front?

darcilicious
July 9th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Easy enough to test out: make a new folder that Boxee isn't currently indexing; copy one or two movies into that folder, rename as you suggest and add to Boxee's media sources.

Let us know how it works out :)

meliz003
August 18th, 2010, 01:45 AM
Anyone find a temporary solution to this problem? I feel Boxee development is slow; I can only hope for a temporary solution for now.

Ikarian
September 8th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Hello-
Would it be possible to sate all the Boxee users out there with old school categorizing skills? Specifically, the inclusion of the word “the” or “a” at the beginning of a movie title. First off, in the Boxee movie list, all of these movies get grouped together, which is somewhat frustrating. Second, for those like me who properly title their movies with the indefinite article at the end, e.g. “English Patient, The”, these movies are not getting picked up very well by the IMDB engine (and when they do, they get grouped improperly as described above). Maybe there is a way to configure this properly that I have not yet stumbled upon. If so, please let me know, and I apologize in advance. Thanks! Great product!

Vandetta
September 8th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Just curious but how would "The A Team" be classified:D

stergil
September 8th, 2010, 11:04 AM
A Team, The

There would be plenty of exceptions that users would probably want to have the article in front of the title. But the amount of exceptions is nothing compared to dozens/hundreds of movies that get clumped into "A .." or "The ...". That's why a per-movie toggle would be ideal.

Personally, I think best case scenario is a Setting preference that would place the article in front/back be applied to all titles. Then much like selecting a movie->"wrong video" we would be able to select a "Move article to front/back" toggle that would inverse the current setting.

darcilicious
September 8th, 2010, 11:38 AM
Besides which, it's "The A-Team", not "The A Team" ;-)

lukad
September 19th, 2010, 06:25 PM
+1 for this idea

twistybox
September 29th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Found this thread finally. :) Has this received any more traction?

Unfortunately, I can honestly say that unless this feature is scheduled for inclusion in the upcoming Boxee Box, I can't see myself deploying that device in my own theater nor for the friends and family that count on me for their systems. It's just one of the most basic intelligent sorting rules that it amazes me it's been left out.

In general I may have considered it a "feature" because a purely character driven sort algorithm only needs to look at one character at a time. However, in Boxee's case I consider is a design flaw and serious bug, because Boxee is sorting Titles, and the definite article ("the") is absolutely never sorted when working with Titles.

This applies to all titles, whether they be Movies, TV Shows, Albums, Artists or Songs/Tracks.

+1 to get this fixed.

And minus 4 or 5 Boxee Box sales until it does.

TheWzrdOz
September 29th, 2010, 10:16 AM
While I also agree that A and The should be ignored, let's discuss the work-around for a second.

If I move The to the end of the title preceeded by a comma, will Boxee still be able to get the movie information ok (coverart, year, director), or does it have to be at the front?


The request is directed at how the titles are sorted for display/selection purposes. I want to view my titles with the word "The" or "A" at the end and not part of the sort.

The correct/full title can still be used for doing all lookups. As a software engineer, I know this is not difficult to implement.

twistybox
September 29th, 2010, 10:33 AM
An architected solution does not change the title at all, only the sorting. There's no reason the word "The" needs to appear after the base portion of the title, separated by a comma or otherwise. IMO, that's not the correct thing to do either. You don't need to alter the display of individual records to alter the sorting.

Articles should simply be ignored when sorting but remain in their correct place for display purposes. In fact, a user preference should exist to edit/define the articles to be ignored - this will allow Boxee to be compliant with titles in other languages as well.

The complexity with which this is to be done or required to be done, depends entirely on Boxee's database. Ideally it's best handled ahead of time by indexing the titles in the database in the corrected format for sorting, while preserving the display text. This will make sorting quicker as the article omission/substitution need only be done when re-indexing and not every time a list is displayed.

But regardless of how it's done, it's fairly obvious that it needs to be done.

Ikarian
October 4th, 2010, 02:34 PM
It's been a little while since I've been able to visit this thread. Glad to see I'm not the only one who wants this!

I maintain a reasonably large movie database (currently somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 uncompressed titles (legal, before you ask!)) and my "A" and "The" sections grow more horrendous by the day. I will say that the main reason I started using Boxee is the indexing feature here. I used to use VLC player and the VLC iPhone app, which is nifty, but still requires manual searching through multiple hard drives. Boxee is by far the better alternative, in that it combines all searched folders into one title list. And of course, the ability to search that list.

This article situation is a big one for me, as I have big plans for my little movie database (nothing commercial, mind you). I know this is a beta level product, and I'm making requests to a pro-bono team. However, of the two given solutions (ignore the article, or allow the article to be listed at the back of the title and still function properly) neither seems like it would be THAT hard to implement from a coding standpoint. I am sure it is simply a matter of time and resources. Especially since I imagine Boxee is spending a lot of bandwidth getting ready for the upcoming Box launch. I am rambling to say, essentially, I appreciate your product, and I understand why it has not been fixed. But at the same time, I think you owe it to yourselves to launch your new Box with this feature intact. If only to make it look more professional.

flynn
October 6th, 2010, 02:11 PM
+1. Seems like low hanging fruit.

darcilicious
October 6th, 2010, 02:14 PM
It does, doesn't it?

samukas
October 7th, 2010, 09:04 AM
I for one like having both "A" and "The" before the titles, but I agree there should be an option to turn it off. But please don't remove the current sorting scheme =P

stergil
October 7th, 2010, 09:32 AM
I'm not trying to argue something as subjective as preference, if not changed I'm all in favor of an option to sort properly. Choices are good :)

What is it that you like about it? I only feel frustration when I look at the dozens if not hundreds of movies slammed under A and "The ..." in my library. Genuine curiosity.

flynn
October 7th, 2010, 09:33 AM
I for one like having both "A" and "The" before the titles, but I agree there should be an option to turn it off. But please don't remove the current sorting scheme =P

Wait.. noone is asking to remove the "A" or the "The", right? We're just asking to sort things differently by default.

For example, you would see

* The A-Team
* Breakfast Club
* The Crow
...

What value does the current sorting scheme have? Do some people really prefer it?

stergil
October 7th, 2010, 09:47 AM
Wait.. noone is asking to remove the "A" or the "The", right? We're just asking to sort things differently by default.

For example, you would see

* The A-Team
* Breakfast Club
* The Crow
...

What value does the current sorting scheme have? Do some people really prefer it?

Personally, I'd prefer :

* A-Team, The
* Breakfast Club
* Crow, The

However, I'd be well enough satisfied if the title didn't display differently but was sorted properly, like your example.

Currently it sorts A-Z and does not ignore "A" or "The", or it sorts by Recently Added.

samukas
October 7th, 2010, 09:59 AM
Wait.. noone is asking to remove the "A" or the "The", right? We're just asking to sort things differently by default.

I realise that, I just didn't make myself understand. I for one like the way it is. "The" being under "T" and so on... But I agree there should be a toogle for people to choose. I was just enfatizing that I don't want Boxee to remove completely the current sorting option, a toogle would be nice =P

What is it that you like about it? I only feel frustration when I look at the dozens if not hundreds of movies slammed under A and "The ..." in my library. Genuine curiosity.

I'm just used to it, I guess. Say I think of the movie "The Shawshank Redemption", I automatically think go to letter T and not S. So, for me , it would be kind of confusing having the movie sorted on "S".

flynn
October 7th, 2010, 10:03 AM
I realise that, I just didn't make myself understand. I for one like the way it is. "The" being under "T" and so on... But I agree there should be a toogle for people to choose. I was just enfatizing that I don't want Boxee to remove completely the current sorting option, a toogle would be nice =P

Could you explain why you like it that way? Do you not lose all your media under "T"? Or do you not have a big library?

tennisbgc
October 11th, 2010, 12:00 AM
Im in favor of the a and the being ignored in the beginning of a title. too many the movies.

jussing
October 12th, 2010, 09:33 AM
Could you explain why you like it that way? Do you not lose all your media under "T"? Or do you not have a big library?
That's the thing in a nutshell, really. Alphabetical sorting exists to have a logical overview of all the material, and it's really lost when 20% of your titles are clugged up under "The..."

+1 for me. :)

And this describes how beautifully simple the implementation is:
(which is always easy to say about things that other people need to implement, but in this case I'd say it's the truth)

Articles should simply be ignored when sorting but remain in their correct place for display purposes.

- Jonas

twistybox
October 12th, 2010, 06:58 PM
Implementation isn't necessarily "easy" - nothing ever is when you're talking about software engineering. As a software developer and designer I know this all too well. There are a number of complexities (edge cases) that the casual customer/user will never think of with this type of feature. Those need to be accounted for to make sure the option works smoothly and "as expected."

The point I was trying to make in my previous post is simply that this feature needs to be implemented. It doesn't matter if it's easy or extremely difficult (given the current database design). However much time it takes, that time needs to be spent to get it done.

And having the setting only work with "The" and "A" is not the correct thing to do either. The setting really should be done in two parts at the very least. It can be done in as little as one, but that's not as elegant in my opinion. As an absolute minimum it needs to allow the customer to edit the list of articles.

First a boolean (ON/OFF) to enable/disable the sorting feature. "Ignore leading articles for sorting titles." Under that a list of words to ignore, able to be edited by the customer. "Articles to ignore: (editable list here)" - the list should be pre-populated with popular articles, "the, el, la, los, las, le, les" - I wouldn't add "A" by default.

A third possible option is boolean to allow the article to be moved to the end of the display title. It should be a child option of the first boolean and only able to be changed when the first option is ON. "Display ignored article at end of title."

This and the fast-forward and rewind bug are the only things that keep me from the Boxee Box pre-order right now.

tommi12
October 14th, 2010, 04:54 PM
I vote in favor of at least a toggle-option for this issue. XBMC has this, so why not Boxee? It will not hold me off from ordering a Boxee Box though.

ripper2982
November 12th, 2010, 04:44 PM
+1 for some sort of sorting fix.

haveringcottage
November 16th, 2010, 08:34 AM
A number of posters here think it would be a nice idea to have the option to ignore the word "The" in the alphabetical listings, where a movie title starts with "The".

Best solution: the incorporation of a toggle to ignore the "The" would be good.

Prime example: Would you rather see the movie "The Matrix" listed under 'T' or 'M'. I think most people would go to 'M'.

All users who think this is an issue worth the devs attention, please can you vote for the issue on the boxee jira, here:-

http://jira.boxee.tv/browse/BOXEE-7022

Thank you!

haveringcottage
November 16th, 2010, 09:07 AM
a chap called Jeremy Milum just made a great point on JIRA, this improvment should consider prefixes in all languages - see his post

http://forums.boxee.tv/showpost.php?p=101983&postcount=10

haveringcottage
November 16th, 2010, 09:40 AM
thank you admins. i was very confused for a second then :confused:

http://jira.boxee.tv/browse/BOXEE-7022 - EVERYONE PLEASE VOTE FOR THIS ISSUE!!!

Drone-01
November 16th, 2010, 12:53 PM
The "the" would not be a problem if searching was tweaked....

I have a sizable selection of local content... and it would be great to press a letter on the keypad and it jump to that location in the listing of movies... yet it doesn't work like that on the BBox.

Tiresome issue - but I really dislike the web content integration on boxee. I don't want it and I don't place much value on it... I'd go as far to say that I hate it.... the elusive Move server with rocking front end has always been just that elusive... until Boxee came into the picture. Yet now we are butchering it up to cater to the web content... frustrating.

It's like another open source project needs to creep up to just cater to the movie server needs. I thought the BBox was going to be the end all to serving video to each of my TV's at the house... and now we deal with limiting factors due to changing goals of boxee.

Fast forward a few years and even my argument will be invalid... all content is going to the cloud... and that is where it should be. The cost of aquiring, storing and keeping sizable collections will far exceed a monthly subscription to a service that trumps 500 to 1000 title collections.

Bllaaa blaa blaaa me... back to the "The" situation... I vote against changing a films true name. Just improve how we find it.

haveringcottage
November 17th, 2010, 03:59 PM
http://forums.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=9874

it seems the "The" issue was addressed back in an early alpha release.... (see the quote under "more changes...")

why did the devs go and change it back at a later date??

any input from boxee staff welcome!!

http://jira.boxee.tv/browse/BOXEE-7022 - EVERYONE PLEASE VOTE FOR THIS ISSUE!!!

Tuskone
November 18th, 2010, 01:39 PM
Sorting has a little problem, it would be better, if sorting would skip the word "The". So for example "The Book Of Eli" would be at B not at T.

bxpressiv
November 21st, 2010, 02:11 AM
I'm surprised this one hasn't been fixed/updated for quite some time now. With the amount of stuff that needs to be fixed on Boxee Box though I can't see this one getting fixed in the next 12 months.

antipode
November 22nd, 2010, 02:29 AM
I figured this would have been common sense, if not fixed a long time ago.

twistybox
November 26th, 2010, 03:33 PM
Fast forward a few years and even my argument will be invalid... all content is going to the cloud...

That's not likely. Local storage is going to be cheaper than bandwidth for a very long time. There's not a single sign to indicate that will change at all, let alone "in a few years."

Hard drives continue to get bigger and cheaper. Computers are getting faster and cheaper. Physical media is only going to go down in price, if for nothing else than the used marketplace. Meanwhile access to the internet is getting faster but more expensive. Monthly bandwidth/transfer limits are getting smaller and more expensive to increase.

Bllaaa blaa blaaa me... back to the "The" situation... I vote against changing a films true name. Just improve how we find it.

No one is talking about changing names. We're talking about sorting names. "The" is an article and must be ignored when sorted. Anything else is a bastardization of language. Seriously, has no one ever been to a library?

thechiman
December 28th, 2010, 09:15 PM
I have been waiting for this feature since I stared using Boxee way back when Boxee was invite only. I guess I missed the part about it being in the alpha. Boxee, please bring it back!

Edit: I see the issue has been resolved in the Fiona SP3: http://jira.boxee.tv/browse/BOXEE-7022. I am confused, however as I do not understand when that trickles down into the publicly released version.